Gelato Mouthfeel problem
Printed From: Dairy Science and Food Technology
Category: Ice cream
Forum Name: Ice cream
Forum Description: Science and technology of ice cream
URL: https://www.dairyscience.info/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=404
Printed Date: 29 Mar 2023 at 4:32pm
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Topic: Gelato Mouthfeel problem
Posted By: adams_austin
Subject: Gelato Mouthfeel problem
Date Posted: 12 May 2015 at 4:24am
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Hi Mr. Mike, Please help me out here. I am facing a big issue of loss in mouth-feel of Gelato flavors after shifting to a new Gelato base. Earlier I used to use - 700 ml Fresh Milk (6% FAT) - 140 gms Sugar - 12 gms Skimmed Milk Powder (26% protein) - 17 gms Dextrose Monohydrate - 100 gms Fresh Cream (25% FAT) - 34 gms MEC3's Panna Base (as a stabilizer). However, because of unavailability of Panna base, I wanted to make a similar recipe for base and after many trials, it boiled down to the following: - 700 ml Fresh Milk (6% FAT) - 125 gms Sugar - 45 gms Skimmed Milk Powder (26% protein) - 30 gms Dextrose Monohydrate - 125 gms Fresh Cream (25% FAT) - 4 gms Local Stabilizer. However,using the new base, there is a big loss in flavor's mouth-feel and I keep wondering what may be the reason for such a loss. Please advice me ways to increase mouth-feel of Gelato flavors. Looking forward to your valuable suggestion. Regards, Austin |
Replies:
Posted By: Admin
Date Posted: 14 Jul 2015 at 7:36pm
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Austin Please accept my apologies for missing your post. Because of the large amount of SPAM that the forum has been receiving all posts must be approved prior to them going live. There was so much SPAM that I missed your post. This has now been remedied and I will respond to your query shortly. Michael Mullan
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Posted By: Admin
Date Posted: 14 Jul 2015 at 7:53pm
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I am not familiar with MEC's Panna base. However I am familiar with Panna-type bases developed by other companies. They normally contain stabilisers, emulsifiers and glucose solids (glucose syrup solids not dextrose or glucose). This combination of glucose solids usually around DE 40 or thereabouts with carefully chosen emulsifiers/stabilisers contributes significant body and desirable mouth feel. The extra skim milk powder and additional dextrose will depress the freezing point of your gelato and it will appear softer than before. I can provide you with a better recipe. PM me if you want to discuss. You could also buy an alternative Panna product from Mr Williams who is one of the authors on this site.
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Posted By: adams_austin
Date Posted: 08 May 2017 at 6:33am
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Hi mate, Thanks for your reply. Currently, I am using a recipe, which gives me the below mentioned texture. My current recipe: Milk - 1 litre (FAT-4.5%, SNF- 8.5%) Sugar - 125 gms SMP - 65 gms Dextrose - 70 gms Fresh Cream - 160 gms (25% FAT) Maltodextrin - 50 gms Emusifier - 3 gms Tapioca Powder - 2 gms Corn Starch - 3 gms  Current Texture of Gelato However, my target texture of Gelato is shown below.  Do let me know what changes should I make in my recipe to get the desired texture.
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Posted By: Admin
Date Posted: 08 May 2017 at 10:45pm
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Austin Thanks for your post. When I get a little time, probably this Wednesday am, I will break down your mix to fat, MSNF etc and post results. |
Posted By: adams_austin
Date Posted: 09 May 2017 at 2:39am
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Thanks a lot admin. Eagerly waiting for your reply. Note : Fresh Cream used contains 25% FAT and SNF 6.8% |
Posted By: Admin
Date Posted: 10 May 2017 at 7:48pm
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Hi I have done a quick analysis of your mix. I have not had time to double check my calculations but will do when I get time. The attached image shows my analysis of your mix.  |
Posted By: Admin
Date Posted: 10 May 2017 at 7:58pm
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This is a low fat mix, around 6%. It has a low PAC value which means that at normal freezer temperatures it will be hard to scoop. It is not particularly sweet either (POD value). If the MSNF is too high (lets ignore lactose sandiness issues since with modern stabilisers these rarely occur today) the excess protein interferes with fat agglomeration and creates a range of issues. Your MSNF is too high. Someone has formulated this mix for economy purposes and has probably used maltodextrin and tapioca as fat replacers to give a richer taste. Try reducing the MSNF by 1% and increasing the POD and PAC values. Look at the articles on the website to get you started. Ensure that you get the discharge temperature out of your freezer as low as you can and try and get air into your mix. |
Posted By: adams_austin
Date Posted: 10 May 2017 at 8:51pm
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Hi Mike, Thanks a lot for your help. Your feedback will be very useful to proceed ahead. I have a few queries on your feedback. 1) What is the optimum POD and PAC according to you for low fat mix of around 6%? 2) Can you help me find the two award winning recipes in the free resources? 3) While Calculating POD & PAC for Fresh & SMP, what kind & percentage of sugar have you taken into consideration? Thanks a lot for your feedback so far. A |
Posted By: Admin
Date Posted: 10 May 2017 at 9:10pm
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1. The PAC value depends on the serving temperature e.g. you need a different value for -12C compared with -18C. Using PAC values you can work out the approximate % of frozen water in ice cream. This needs to be adjusted so that the ice cream or gelato is not too hard at the serving temperature. 2. the two prize winning recipes you refer to require a subscription to the On Line calculator at https://www.dairyscience.info/calculator1/index.php" rel="nofollow - https://www.dairyscience.info/calculator1/index.php . 3. There are two articles on the website that deal with this area! See the menu under ice cream. See https://www.dairyscience.info/index.php/ice-cream/220-ice-cream-sweetness.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.dairyscience.info/index.php/ice-cream/220-ice-cream-sweetness.html and https://www.dairyscience.info/index.php/ice-cream/228-ice-cream-hardness.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.dairyscience.info/index.php/ice-cream/228-ice-cream-hardness.html |
Posted By: adams_austin
Date Posted: 10 May 2017 at 9:13pm
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Moreover, I am not very sure about the sweetness of my sugar, dextrose and Maltodextrin used. In order to check their exact sweetness or POD, can I use a refractometer (already in possession)?
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Posted By: Admin
Date Posted: 10 May 2017 at 9:24pm
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There is no scientific method for measuring sweetness. There are accepted reference values for sugars. These are compared against sucrose, table sugar. The sweetness of maltodextrin depends on its DE value. This can vary and is available from the manufacturer. Please read the articles before posting again!!!!! |
Posted By: adams_austin
Date Posted: 10 May 2017 at 9:27pm
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Thanks a lot Sir for the useful information. Much appreciated!
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Posted By: Admin
Date Posted: 10 May 2017 at 9:45pm
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Thank you for your feedback. Regretfully I do not often have the time to respond to a query in this way. Please let us know how things go. |
Posted By: adams_austin
Date Posted: 29 Jun 2017 at 6:36am
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Hi Mike, Thanks for all the help so far in improving my Gelato recipe. I went through your recipes and tried to make some changes and at the end came to this recipe: Milk (4.5% FAT) - 1003 gms Fresh Cream (25% FAT) - 160 gms Sugar - 115 gms Dextrose Monohydrate - 80 gms Maltodextrin - 50 gms SMP - 50 gms Corn Powder - 1.5 gms Pregel Neutro Base - 5 gms CarboxyMethylChloride - 1 gm Emulsifier - 3 gms
According to my calculations, my MSNF is around 9.85%, POD is 12.4% and PAC value is 24.09. However, the problem with this recipe is that the creaminess of my Gelato has reduced considerably and it has become a bit heavier in nature. My serving temperature is -15 degrees. I would be grateful if you may suggest ways to pump in more air in my Gelato and let me know if my recipe and calculations need any more tinkering to make gelato lighter and more creamier. Thank you for your help so far and awaiting your reply. A
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Posted By: Amine57
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2018 at 9:56pm
| Hello everyone. First id like to introduce my self. I am Amine from Morocco. I went through your receipts and I notice the following .the level of sugar is low that's why your gelato will be hard even at -15c°. In your place I will be around 17% for the whitebase and depanding on the flavour I am preparing I will balance my final flavour with 2 element sugar for fatty paste and cream for sugar paste. I think this will help if I well got your question. Good luck |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2018 at 5:14pm
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Hi Austin, Looks about right but 2 things. Are you heating your mix to 160 F and keeping it there for at least 15 minutes? What emulsifier are you using?
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Posted By: adams_austin
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2018 at 5:53pm
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Hi, I use Lecithin as an emulsifier (2 gm per kg mix). Yes, I wait for 15-20 minutes after pastuerizing milk to 80 degrees C and before ageing.
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Posted By: adams_austin
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2018 at 5:55pm
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Hi Amine57, Thank you for your reply. I will try increasing sugar to 17% of mix and see how the result is.
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Posted By: Admin
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2018 at 10:48pm
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Lecithin is not the best emulsifier for promoting fat agglomeration and stabilising air bubbles. I did recommend you to read the articles on hardness and sweetness. The POD and PAC values of your original mix need to change. Mix was not sweet enough and the resulting product would have been quite hard. You have not mentioned your overrun.
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